What does it mean to say that there is a distance between two events in time? (Another Quora Question)

It probably means that the speaker is taking a Galilean approach to physics.
In modern relativistic physics, the property of having a time-like separation between two events is independent of observer, but the magnitude of that separation depends on the observer. And two events which are spacelike separated, while having no time difference for some observers, will still appear to have a non-zero time difference for others.
So the concept of a time (or space) “distance” (ie a specific value of the difference) between two events in space-time does not make sense without reference to an observer.
However in the case of two time-like separated events the time difference is nonzero for all observers, and if we restrict to inertial observers it has a nonzero minimum (which corresponds to the time difference as seen by an observer who experiences both events directly without any intervening acceleration or gravitational field gradient). But although this minimum is in principle computable by any observer it does not correspond to the time difference actually “seen” by that observer.

Source: (1000) Alan Cooper’s answer to What does it mean to say that there is a distance between two events in time? – Quora

Given that the Lorentz transformation is symmetrical with respect to interchange of space and time, how does it lead to length contraction but time dilation?

This is a question that I am surprised to not have seen before (especially since I have had to remind myself of the answer more than once – including, I suspect but can’t be sure, from way back before I entered my dotage).

It is true that in one space dimension the transformation equations

x=γ(xβt) and t=γ(tβx)

are completely symmetrical with respect to interchange of x with t and x with t.

(and in the case of three space dimensions the same applies if x and x are the coordinates in the same direction as the relative velocity, so it’s not got anything to do with the dimension).

So what is the difference?

Well here it is in a nutshell.

When we measure the length of a moving measuring rod, we look at both ends at the same time and so are looking at the spatial distance between two events at the same time in our frame of reference.

But when we measure the time between two ticks of a moving clock we are looking at the time difference between two events that are NOT at the same spatial position in our frame.

So the nature of the two measurements is not symmetrical with respect to interchange of space and time.

I may add some more explanation and diagrams to show how this does lead to contraction for the rod length and dilation for the tick interval, but I wanted to get this off my chest right away – and also to address a couple of natural follow-up questions.

Namely, what kind of measurements would give the symmetrical outcome? Are there situations in which these others might be relevant? And why do we instinctively prefer the ones we do?

So, for example, what kind of time measurement would be symmetrical compared to our usual rod length measurement (and so would give a “time contraction” rather than the usual time dilation)?

Since the rod length involves looking at both ends at the same time in our frame, the corresponding time measurement would involve looking at the interval between two ticks at the same place. But how can we do this if the clock is moving? Well we could if the clock was extended in space, and if we have a long train of clocks that are synchronized in their own frame, then you can easily check that observers who look at the time between the ticks right in front of them will actually see a shorter interval than that measured by the travelling system – ie a time contraction.

And going the other way, what kind of measurement would give a length dilation? Well that would have to be the symmetric version of our usual clock measurement. And corresponding to our usual measurement of the time interval between two ticks at the same place in the moving clock’s frame, interchanging space and time would have us measuring the spatial distance between events where the two ends of the rod are at the same time in the rod’s frame. For example the managers of the rod might set off flares at both ends in a way that they, travelling with the rod, perceive as simultaneous. If we measure the distance between where we see those two flares then it will indeed appear dilated relative to the length of the rod in its own frame.

So now we come to the final question. Is there anything really “wrong” about these alternative kinds of measurement? If so what is it? Or is there just something about us which makes us think of what we do as natural and the alternative as somehow, if not actually wrong, then at least rather odd?

Here’s what I think (at least for now). The thing that makes us prefer to measure lengths in terms of events at the same time in our frame but times in terms of events at the same place in the moving frame is the fact that we, as blobs of space time, are much more extended in time than in space. (This is evident in the fact that we live for many years but do not extend for many light years in our spatial extent – or equivalently that in units adapted to our own spatial and temporal extent the numerical value of c is very large.)

So here’s a follow-up question. Could we imagine an entity which was the other way around? (ie of brief duration but of great spatial extent) And from the point of view of such an entity would it make sense to define measurements differently (as suggested above to achieve the effect of time contraction and length dilation)?

OR is it more just a matter of causality?

P.S. This is a question and answer that I have been meaning to post for some time, but was prompted to do so by Domino Valdano’s excellent answer to another question (in which she covers pretty much the same ground with a slightly different way of expressing the ultimate reason for why we measure as we do – which I may yet end up deciding that I prefer to my own). Please do read that one too!

PPS See also Mark Barton’s answer to a related question.

Source: (1000) Alan Cooper’s answer to Given that the Lorentz transformation is symmetrical with respect to interchange of space and time, how does it lead to length contraction but time dilation? – Quora

More TwinStuff from Quora

Source: (1000) Alan Cooper’s answer to In the twin paradox where does the missing time go? If the twin turns back to Earth then turns away again their notion of now switches back to the past. What does this mean for the experience of the observer on Earth relative to the moving twin? – Quora

Proper Acceleration

The proper acceleration of an observer is that observer’s own sensed acceleration. Its description in terms of felt force would require an excursion into dynamics, but it can be defined kinematically if the observer is aware of some other frame which is known for some reason to be inertial. After acceleration of an observer, the previous frame of that observer appears (to that observer) to be moving in the opposite direction. So if the previous inertial frame (which matched the observer at time t on the traveller’s own clock) is observed at time t+Δt to have relative velocity Δv, then the limiting ratio a(t)=limΔt0ΔvΔt is what we take as the proper acceleration. (We will ensure later that this purely kinematic definition does indeed match the dynamical definition in terms of felt force but for now just take it as “the” definition of proper acceleration.)

Any observer, O, lives through a sequence of inertial frames FO(t), labelled by the “proper time” t showing on O’s clock, and each such frame associates any other frame with a relative velocity and a space-time displacement.

Let us use vt, tt, and xt to represent possible velocities and coordinates relative to the inertial frame FO(t), with vt(F), tt(F), and xt(F) being the values of those variables corresponding to some other frame F as seen from FO(t).

If O has proper acceleration a(t), then the frame at time t+Δt is thus seen from that at time t as having velocity and coordinates given by vt=vt(FO(t+Δt))=a(t)Δt+O((Δt)2)a(t)Δt, xt=xt(FO(t+Δt))=a(t)(Δt)22+O((Δt)3)a(t)(Δt)22, and tt=tt(FO(t+Δt))=Δt+O((Δt)2)Δt [where the reason this last is not exactly Δt is because, as soon as the velocity changes, the clock measuring that Δt for the accelerated observer is moving (and so slowed down) relative to that of the observer at time t].

[The inertial frame of the observer at time t+Δt thus has time axis xt+Δt=0 given in terms of the time t coordinates approximately by xta(t)(Δt)22=(a(t)Δt)(ttΔt), and the spacelike axis of simultaneity at tt+Δt=0 is given by ttΔt=(a(t)Δt)(xta(t)(Δt)22).

So the simultaneity space tt+Δt=0 intersects tt=0 at the event where Δt=(a(t)Δt)(xta(t)(Δt)22), i.e. xt=1a(t)+O((Δt)2).

For the case of constant acceleration a this makes all the simultaneity spaces pass through the same “fulcrum event” and this can be used to get a geometric proof that the worldline is hyperbolic and that events beyond the “Rindler horizon” (which is always at xt=1a) remain forever inaccessible to the accelerated observer.

This approach is discussed in more detail in the Wikipedia page on Rindler Coordinates (see also this version on the anonymously authored ‘mathpages’ website, and this discussion by Greg Egan). But in the discussion below I shall take what I think is a more intuitively direct path, and try to say something about the case of non-constant proper acceleration as well.]

As judged by the “birth” frame (corresponding to t=0), a difference of Δt in the value of tt(F) corresponds to a difference of γ(t)Δt in t0(F)(where γ(t)=11vb(t)2).

[Note: It is also true that, as judged by the frame at time t, a difference of Δt in the value of t0(F) corresponds to a difference of γ(t)Δt in tt(F) (since the question of which frame appears to be time dilated depends on which frame is making the comparison). And if this still seems confusing then you may need to re-visit the earlier discussion of time dilation.]

So, if we use tb(t) as shorthand for t0(FO(t)), and similarly for xb(t) and vb(t), then the relations above can be written in terms of the birthframe coordinates as follows:

tb(t+Δt)=tb(t)+γ(t)Δt+O((Δt)2),

xb(t+Δt)=xb(t)+vb(t)(γ(t)Δt)+O((Δt)2), and

vb(t+Δt)=vb(t)[+]a(t)Δt=vb(t)+a(t)Δt1+(vb(t))(a(t)Δt)=(vb(t)+a(t)Δt)(1(vb(t))(a(t)Δt))+O((Δt)2)=vb(t)+a(t)Δt(vb(t))2(a(t)Δt)+O((Δt)2)

(where [+] is just shorthand for the relativistic velocity sum).

So we have the differential equations

tb(t)=γ(t)=11vb(t)2,

xb(t)=γ(t)vb(t)=vb(t)1vb(t)2, and

vb(t)=a(t)(1vb(t)2).

The last of these is separable and so is easily solved (by cross-multiplying and integrating) to get vb(t)dt(1vb(t)2)=a(t)dt.

This then gives ln1+v1v=a(t)dt, which gives 1+v1v=e2a(t)dt and so vb(t)=e2a(t)dt1e2a(t)dt+1=tanh(a(t)dt).

Note: Here the integrated proper acceleration a(t)dt is the subjective velocity change, which from now on we’ll call vs(0,t), and vb(t)=tanh(vs(0,t)) is the apparent velocity of the traveller as inferred by the birthframe observer at the birthframe time when the traveller’s clock reads time t.

For the coordinates, with respect to the birthframe, of O’s worldline event at proper time t we now get

tb(t)=dt1vb(t)2=dt1tanh(vs(0,t)2=cosh(vs(0,t))dt

and

xb(t)=vb(t)dt1vb(t)2=cosh(vs(0,t))tanh(vs(0,t))dt=sinh(vs(0,t))dt.

Note: By FTC&ChainRule, xb(t)=sinh(vs(0,t)dt)ddtvs(0,t) and tb(t)=cosh(vs(0,t)dt)ddtvs(0,t), so the apparent velocity as seen by the birthframe observer is given by vb=dxbdtb=xb(t)tb(t)=tanh(vs(0,t)).

This is in agreement with our previously derived formula for vb(t), but to get it in terms of the tb coordinate we need to compose with the function giving the proper time t of O when it is at birthframe time tb – which is the composition inverse of the function tb(t)=cosh(a(t)dt)dt=cosh(vs(0,t))dt .

In general, the above integral is not easy to compute explicitly, but in the special case that a(t)=a is constant, then we have vs(0,t)=at+Cv, so vb(t)=tanh(at+Cv) (with vb(0)=0 giving Cv=0), and in that case we can complete the integrals for the coordinates to get

tb(t)=cosh(at+Cv)dt=1asinh(at+Cv)+Ct with tb(0)=0 giving Ct=0, so tb(t)=1asinh(at), and

xb(t)=sinh(at+Cv)dt=1acosh(at+Cv)+Cx with xb(0)=0 giving Cx=1a, so xb(t)=1acosh(at)1a.

And in this case we can invert to get t(tb)=1a[sinh1(atb)] which gives

vb(tb)=tanh(a[1a[sinh1(atb)])=tanh(sinh1(atb))=atb1+(atb)2

Which, as expected, remains less than c (which is 1 in our units) and so the acceleration observed by the birthframe observer is decidedly NOT constant but rather decreasing to zero as the speed gets closer and closer to c.

[insert brief discussion of Rindler coords and horizon for the case of const accel for all time]

For the case of piecewise constant proper acceleration, say a(t)=ai between proper times ti and ti+1, we can use the foregoing analysis to follow how the frame changes in each interval. But in this case the period of constant acceleration is starting at t=ti rather than t=0, so the conditions for the constants of integration (which depend on i) are now as follows:

tanh(aiti+Cv,i)=vb(ti) gives Cv,i=tanh1(vb(ti))aiti=vs(0,ti)aiti, but we’ll often just use (aiti+Cv,i)=tanh1(vb(ti))=vs(0,ti) directly;

1aisinh(aiti+Cv,i)+Ct,i=tb(ti) gives Ct,i=tb(ti)1aisinh(aiti+Cv,i)=tb(ti)1aisinh(vs(0,ti))[also=tb(ti)1aisinh(tanh1(vb(ti)))=tb(ti)1aivb(ti)1+vb(ti)2];and

1aicosh(aiti+Cv,i)+Cx,i=xb(ti) gives Cx,i=xb(ti)1aicosh(aiti+Cv,i)=xb(ti)1aicosh(vs(0,ti))[also=xb(ti)1aicosh(tanh1(vb(ti)))=xb(ti)1aivb(ti)1+vb(ti)2].

So, for ti<t<ti+1 we have

vb(t)=tanh[tanh1(vb(ti))+ai(tti)]=vb(ti)+tanh(ai(tti))1+(vb(ti))(tanh(ai(tti)))=vb(ti)[+]tanh(ai(tti))

with

tb(t)=cosh[ait+Cv,i]dt=1aisinh[ait+Cv,i]+Ct,i=1aisinh[ait+vs(0,ti)aiti]+{tb(ti)1aisinh[vs(0,ti)]}=tb(ti)+1ai{sinh[ai(tti)+vs(0,ti)]sinh[vs(0,ti)]},

(giving

tb(ti+1)tb(ti)=1ai{sinh[ai(ti+1ti)+vs(0,ti)]sinh[vs(0,ti)]}=1ai{sinh[vs(0,ti+1)]sinh[vs(0,ti)]}=titi+1cosh(vs(0,t))dt since ddtsinh[vs(0,t)]=cosh[vs(0,t)]ddtvs(0,t) and ddtvs(0,t)=ai for ti<t<ti+1 ),

and

xb(t)=sinh[ait+Cv,i]dt=1aicosh[ait+Cv,i]+Cx,i=1aicosh[ait+vs(0,ti)aiti]+{xb(ti)1aicosh[vs(0,ti)]}=xb(ti)+1ai{cosh[ai(tti)+vs(0,ti)]cosh[vs(0,ti)]}.

(giving

xb(ti+1)xb(ti)=1ai{cosh[ai(ti+1ti)+vs(0,ti)]cosh[vs(0,ti)]}=1ai{cosh[vs(0,ti+1)]cosh[vs(0,ti)]}=titi+1sinh(vs(0,t))dt since ddtcosh[vs(0,t)]=sinh[vs(0,t)]ddtvs(0,t) and ddtvs(0,t)=ai for ti<t<ti+1).

Spacetime diagrams from POV of both twins in the finite acceleration versions of the twin “paradox”.

If properly worded this would have been a good question. From the comments attached to the question we see that the questioner is really asking for two diagrams, one showing the point of view of each of the twins rather than a single diagram showing the coordinate systems of both. And by the ambiguous condition of “constant acceleration” he means constant acceleration as perceived by the stationary observer rather than constant proper acceleration as felt by the traveler.

Of course the case of constant proper acceleration would be more realistic in the sense that it just requires the traveler to experience a constant g-force, whereas constant observed acceleration requires an increasing applied force (which would actually become unbounded as the speed got closer and closer to c). But for a limited time it is possible to keep adjusting the applied force so as to create a constant acceleration relative to the Earth’s frame and in that case the relevant part of the world line (in any inertial frame) is a simple parabolic segment (rather than the hyperbolic segment that would correspond to constant proper acceleration).

With the assumption of constant accelerations in the stay-at-home inertial frame, the spacetime diagram in terms of stay-at-home coordinates is just this:

Here we have a parabolic segment taking the traveler from the start event to where he reaches a cruising speed of , followed by  a straight line segment or the bulk of the trip, then a parabolic segment for deceleration, a vertical segment for time spent at the destination, another parabolic segment for acceleration back towards home, straight line for the cruise, and the final parabolic deceleration phase.

In this diagram the coordinates are tH for the time on the stay-at-home clock and xH for the position in the stay-at-home coordinate system, and we will use the name xHTI for the function which gives the traveler’s position in stay-at-home coordinates in terms of the time tH that the stay-at-home observer perceives as concurrent with the traveler’s arrival at that position. (The superscript I on the function name is to indicate that this is what he infers rather than what he actually sees). So the graph of xH=xHTI(tH) shows what the stay-at-home thinks is the position of the traveler when his (stay-at-home) clock shows time tH. This is one interpretation of the homie’s “point of view” but it is not what he actually sees.

What the homie actually sees is delayed by the light travel time from the traveler (just as what we see of a distant star many light years away is not what it is actually happening there now but what happened that many light years ago).

So to get the graph of what the homie actually sees we must look at the point on the previous graph that is the source of a light signal reaching home at time tH.

We can get a graph of what the homie actually sees by tracing down each light-line from the tH axis to where it meets the xH=xHTI(tH) graph and plotting the xH value of that event as xHTO(tH) (with the superscript O identifying the position actually observed at time tH rather than that which was inferred to be simultaneous).

Now let’s look at things from the point of view of the traveler.

The vertical axis now corresponds to the traveler’s clock time tT and the horizontal lines either to distances that we want to associate with that time. If we want to plot what is actually seen by the traveler then for each tT we plot the position coordinate corresponding to the distance from which the signal is coming (as determined, eg, by parralax). and if we want to plot where the traveller infers that the homie actually is at the time tT we attribute the distance of the source seen at time tT to the earlier time tT|xT|c

What the traveler actually sees at any event on his worldline is exactly the same as what is seen by an inertial traveler whose world line passes through that event with zero relative velocity (ie for which the worldline is tangent to that of the traveler at that event). Such a tangential traveler sees the values of xTTEO and tTTEO corresponding to a time xTTEO/c earlier in his own frame – so that xTTEO= and tTTEO

events that are seen by him at the time his clock shows time tT with position along that line corresponding to the distance he measures (eg by parallax) to that event; or, in the case of the inferred view those that are inferred to be happening simultaneously with that tT click of the clock or to those distance xT which he measures (eg by parallax) to whatever event we are talking about.

When the traveler’s clock reads time tT he is at the event for which tH is such that 0tH11v(t)2dt=tT where v(t)=at,vf,vfa(ttf),0,a(ttr),vf,vf+a(tht)

To find xTHI(tT) we have to use the tT=constant simultaneity space for the traveler and find its intersection with the xH=0 worldline of the homie

The light signal that the traveler is receiving from homie at this event can be seen from the above diagram to come from tH= and we have xH=

And

Source: (1) Can you draw a spacetime diagram from the POV of both twins in the CATP (constant acceleration twin paradox? Assume constant acceleration during launch and landing. See comment attached to the question for details. – Quora

Events vs Instants

One of the most common causes of confusion among people who are trying and failing to understand relativity is the use of the word “event”. Physicists use this word in a way that is contrary to many people’s understanding – namely to refer to a particular point in both time and space rather than to everything that appears to some observer to have occured at a particular instant in time.

So many “refutations” of relativity include references to something like “the event when observer A is exactly one km from observer B”- which has no meaning since it involves more than one position in space. If such arguments used the word “instant” they would still be meaningless but it would be easier to flag the problem in that, because of relativity of simultaneity, what appears as an instant to A is not an instant to B.

Is special relativistic time dilation a real effect or just an illusion? Given two inertial frames each observer finds that the clock of the other runs slower than that observer’s own clock. So who is right? 

This is a pretty good answer except that I wouldn’t say either of them is right if they think that their perception of relative slowness represents something that is objectively true for all observers.

Time dilation is a real effect on the perceptions of observers (with regard to the rates at which one another’s clocks are ticking). Neither of them is “right” if they think there is any real sense in which the other’s clock is objectively slower. But neither of them is wrong about how it appears to them, so it’s not really an illusion any more than the fact that if they are looking at one another then their ideas of the “forward” direction are opposite to one another. What turns out to be more of an illusion is the sense we all have that there is some absolute standard of time which determines which of two spatially separated events occurs before the other.